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Behind the Mic: Prep, Personality, and Persistence
From unpaid intern to professional podcast host, Emma Irwin's journey into podcasting reveals the unexpected twists that can shape a career. In this engaging conversation, Emma shares how a college internship with retail podcast Omni Talk sparked a passion that eventually led to her role hosting Flywheel's commerce and retail media podcast for the past four years.
Emma pulls back the curtain on what it takes to create a professional-sounding podcast, from the extensive preparation (eight months of development before launching her current show) to the technical decisions that enhance quality. While she's now comfortable with the Shure MV7 microphone that best complements her voice, she emphasizes that equipment is just one piece of the puzzle. The real magic happens in preparation, guest research, and developing the confidence to adapt your style to different interview scenarios.
What truly stands out is Emma's candid discussion of the full podcast production cycle. From spending hours researching guests and conducting preliminary calls to crafting thoughtful questions and navigating PR approvals, she reveals the invisible work behind every episode. She even shares her techniques for salvaging interviews with overly-scripted guests and her post-production tricks, including re-recording questions to create better social clips while maintaining visual continuity.
Perhaps most valuable is Emma's perspective on personal growth through podcasting. By regularly interviewing industry leaders "97 levels above" her experience level, she's developed comprehensive knowledge that transforms her from merely a host into a respected voice in the retail media landscape. Her evolution from someone who "was such a nervous kid" to confidently emceeing industry conferences demonstrates how stepping behind the microphone can unlock unexpected potential.
Whether you're considering starting your own podcast or simply curious about what happens behind the scenes, Emma's final advice resonates: practice extensively, explore different aspects of your hosting personality, and remember that "a boring host makes for a boring podcast." Ready to find your voice? This conversation might just be the inspiration you need.
Hello everybody, welcome back to Autofocus. I am your host, brooke Galligan, and I am here today with my good friend, emma Irwin. Emma, tell us about yourself, tell us about who you are, what you do.
Speaker 2:Why are you here? I'm here because you asked me to be here. I did, but, although it's hard to believe for myself, but I think I am actually like a professional podcaster and so I'm very happy to be here. But I run the podcast for Flywheel, which is an Omnicom company, and our podcast is all about learning about retail media and the commerce industry and so I do all of the work for that podcast, up until the act through the recording. It's all me, up until it goes to be edited. But I do all of the prep, all of the work for that podcast, up until the act through the recording. It's all me up until it goes to be edited. But I do all of the prep, all of the scheduling, the organization. I, as I said, I am the host, so I have to talk to the people and beyond that, I work additionally on the marketing team doing other things, but that is a core portion of my job.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I know I yeah, I used to work with Emma at Flywheel and it was such a fun experience working with you. But you really are like a jack of all trades. You can do everything. I sure can.
Speaker 2:I know Some people say that that's a bad thing. Some people say it's a good thing. I'm taking it as a good thing until I just fall off the horse and get run over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like yeah, I don't know, I don't want to put it out there, I'm still on the horse, you're on the horse. Yeah, I don't want to put it out there on the internet. But yeah, if you have a problem you're like vanilla ice Emma can solve it. I sure can. Yeah, that's amazing. But let's go back to the podcast. So how did you even get started into podcasting?
Speaker 2:All right. So this goes all the way back to 2018, which is not that far long ago, but in terms of how long my life is, that's pretty far back, and terms of how long my life is, that's pretty far back. And I studied retail merchandising at the University of Minnesota, and they would have these people come in and present internships for us, for people that were basically looking for unpaid interns. And someone came in and was talking about this podcast that they do about retail called OmniTalk, which is still a very active podcast, and everyone should listen to that as well. But this woman came in and started presenting this information on a podcast and I was like, oh, that's the coolest internship that has ever walked through the door. I'm doing it and I'm the only person that applied to my knowledge and they gave me the job and that I started showing up and working for them, working on prepping the episodes, and then then they were like you're funny, you're going to be on the show too, and so I got to be like the Gen Z intern co-host with them for I think about two years until I finally needed to get a big girl job, and so I made my way to Flywheel and started working on the very like logistical e-commerce side of things, and then someone at Flywheel decided they wanted to start a podcast logistical e-commerce side of things.
Speaker 2:And then someone at Flywheel decided they wanted to start a podcast. Nobody wanted to be the host, because being a host is very time consuming and your face gets plastered all over the internet, and so the person that hired me remembered that I mentioned that I did a podcast in college and so then they had hired in someone to kind of oversee the podcast project. I met up with him, we did months of mock interviews and kind of prepping and deciding what the podcast was going to be. But to this day I've now been doing that for four years for Flywheel and I've been the host the whole time and so far nobody can top me and nobody has booted me out of the seat and it's been a learning curve, but that's kind of all. By chance I ended up in a podcasting position.
Speaker 1:That's so crazy. I feel like, yeah, so you, but you did choose to go in a pod podcasting.
Speaker 2:I mean technically, I made the choice when there was that internship.
Speaker 2:And I was like, yeah, that sounds cool. What? Even who listens to podcasts? And then they blew up and that worked in my favor. And then when Flywheel was like, yeah, we want you to be the host, I was like we want you to be the host. I was like, no, you don't. Like, yeah, I'm 22, no, you don't. But the format ended up working really well in that it started as a like I'm a, I'm a newbie in the industry. This whole podcast is going to be formatted in that like I have to ask really kind of basic questions to people and that way everybody learns isn't and is on the same level. So I did make a choice and I'm still here today.
Speaker 1:That's yeah, that's amazing and so it's like. I know you said that I guess you um and the and the person you get mock interviews like, so how many you did months of prep before you even launched it?
Speaker 2:yes, I got shipped out. No, I had already moved to Baltimore. I was gonna say they shipped me out to Baltimore. The. No, I did that to myself, but we because this was going to be like an entirely new project for flywheel. It was like it just was there was a top-down mandate to make a podcast and everyone else had to figure out how to do it.
Speaker 2:And so this ended up being my former colleague, klaus and I and he was an established podcaster like Danish NPR guy and me trying to figure out the balance between, like, okay, I sort of know about the industry of commerce and, sort of emphasis there, he knows a lot about podcasting. So we kind of like war roomed a few times in person. He flew over from the UK. We spent all this time trying to figure out, like a title, the flow of things, grabbing random people from leadership and making them sit down and see if I could ask them questions and if the question sucked or not and where do you go from there. But that I'd say it took us probably like eight months from meeting each other to publishing the first episode ever. That is crazy to me.
Speaker 1:I mean I cause I come from you know I worked with Eric, which is like the opposite of that. He was just like you're gonna do a podcast and it's gonna be about podcast video equipment and recording and I was like cool and I was like when do I have to start?
Speaker 2:and he was like yesterday so that at the time we weren't that large of a corporation. But there was the you know where we have to be very refined in what we say and figure out something. And there are five bazillion retail media podcasts how do we do something different than everyone else? And that took a while to get everyone on the same page. But I will say my first like episode that we produced with me as host, everyone was like sold ship.
Speaker 2:It go never ask for approval again make it happen, Nice, so you never had to go, like they didn't have to listen to every single episode to like you day, like from the beginning all the way till now, I always give the guests the episode to listen to, to approve that they like what I've done, we've done with them yeah but we still it's very much. We built trust from early on and don't have to go through five million approvals that's amazing, that's so cool.
Speaker 1:And so do you think like the eight month of prep like made it that easy to hit? Because everybody I talked to we just got back from podcast movement and everybody talked to a podcast movement said like the eight month of prep made it that easy to hit, because everybody I talked to we just got back from podcast movement and everybody I talked to a podcast movement said, like the first like hundred episodes that you have are awkward and awful and you and you'll hate all of them. But it sounds like you know you guys like doing all the prep, taking such a long time for prep, like you just like you came out the gate, like I think that that made a huge difference and the format of the show hasn't really changed since we figured out what worked in the beginning.
Speaker 2:And I think, like I hate listening to myself, I think I'm so annoying and so I've been tired of myself since day one, but we still get the like, the energy is still there, the format still works and it's so far like people enjoy listening to it. So I do think that crazy amount of prep. Once everybody signed the papers, they just let us soar from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing. Was it easy to like get on, like be on the mic and like just kind of be funny, or did you learn that in your internship?
Speaker 2:The being getting on the mic and being funny just happens to live within me, I think, the learning how to respond to the people that you're interviewing and then also getting better at your prep work, and over time I've obviously also learned more about the industry. I do a podcast for so I can ask better questions and more nuanced questions, and I forgot what your question was, but I was answering something.
Speaker 1:It's fine, I mean no, it was a great answer, perfect.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:No, I okay so and you were so you were. You were saying how you've you've learned over the years and you're basically, are you like an e-commerce, omni channel retail? You, I mean I, at this point everyone thinks of you as like an industry leader. I mean, that's why they put you on stage in baltimore in front of like a thousand people. Was that nerve-wracking?
Speaker 2:uh, honestly, no, no, because I got like 24 hours notice that that was an example of like having to emcee a conference and I just had so little notice that I packed a really powerful red leather blazer and said you're going to wear that, you're going to turn into someone else.
Speaker 1:And you're just going to be funny.
Speaker 2:So I think, like my own personal character has always been in me be funny. So I think the like my own personal character has always been in me and I think it took that internship really helped bring it out and give me a place to actually like show people in a kind of more formal setting of a recording. But definitely the like being a good host part has evolved over time and it takes that practice and I would say I think we got over awkwardness pretty quickly in the podcast and like the awkwardness of just being on the mic and being the host. I think it's way more awkward to be a guest, as I am right here, but it just it gets better over time and there are some recordings that I still do that I'm like I sucked in that.
Speaker 2:That was awful and that was only my fault that it sucked and there are other ones where I'm like I killed that and but there also so much goes into it and like how you vibe with the guest and, yeah, do you have similar styles of presenting information? If they're drier than cardboard, like my personality, doesn't matter, I sound ridiculous, and so you just kind of have to evolve to the person yeah, you know, so you don't overdo it.
Speaker 1:You know, like you're like sunday, sunday, sunday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I crack one joke and if they just stare at me I'm like all right, so the jokes they're like they're done, they're out, they're out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like we'll just, we're doing business on this one yep, this is just straight.
Speaker 2:I'm reading the questions.
Speaker 1:I know no, but I loved. I loved you at the conference. You're like my favorite part. So, because it was, it was literally you sat down and you had to like watch present you had. It was like four hours of presentations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can, and there was a little bit of an.
Speaker 1:Emma break, which was much needed.
Speaker 2:So thank you. Of course, I tried to be the humor for all these people that all of our companies decided they were going to merge together and all these strangers are just sitting there and I was the one connective tissue of like I'm going to be your comedic relief that has to come out here and present the next slides on AI or HR. And present the next slides on AI or HR. But I'm going to make some kind of joke about it and hope that people laugh and that I don't get fired and get fired.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was great. Okay, but so much for being in front of people, but like so, when you guys, when you're doing the audio, I mean, how much does editing come into it? Does like, I mean, is editing you know, you're like when you listen to it. You're like when you listen to it, you're like I killed it on that interview, what was it? How much of it is the editing?
Speaker 2:That's a good question and I want to give shout out. I have an audio producer that makes me sound really amazing. I take the file back. I'm the first one that goes and listens back through the file and is like, okay, we're going to do this, this and this. I'd say most episodes there is a significant editing of myself and I think it's just.
Speaker 2:It takes me a while to get the question out sometimes that I really want to ask because I'm trying to like adapt it to what they had just said and sometimes I say so many words when it's like I could have asked the same thing in like five words and so I'll go back over and like re-record a voiceover that we insert into the episode.
Speaker 2:But there are some episodes like we do a monthly kind of episode that's just talking about stop stories in commerce that have happened. That's totally. We don't edit anything in there unless we say something that's going to be a PR problem and so we'll cut that out. But that's like straight shot and winging it. But especially when it comes to like external companies that come on to our podcast, I am very refined with how I sound on the podcast in post-production and we'll go through and be like. This just needs to be more streamlined. Or if the guest is really kind of dry, I'll go back in and make the voiceovers really like preppy and engaging, just so that you have something, some energy that comes into the post-produced episode.
Speaker 1:That's cool. Yeah, that's interesting that you go back in and re-record things.
Speaker 2:Oh, every single episode, which is another thing that we like.
Speaker 1:I think with video it might be a little harder, because it sure is. Yeah, do you ever do that?
Speaker 2:with your video podcast. We do so. We currently we don't publish the full video anywhere just because we do so much editing so that we get exactly. Commerce is a lot to absorb and nobody wants to listen to that for like 45 minutes. So when we cut it down, that means things change and therefore your video is going to look crazy and have all these jump cuts. Yeah, but we do.
Speaker 2:We started experimenting with doing clips for social like. Can we make a 60 second or less clip? That's kind of me asking one question and the guests. We cut up their answers so that it fits into the bucket. But we will after a recording. If it took me too long to get a question out in the recording or, like we, I could just ask it in a juicier way. We always save like 10 minutes after the recording so that I look exactly the same and I don't have to try and replicate the lighting or anything. And I'll sit with the audio producer and we redo the question and I have to pretend that I'm back in the interview and she'll say, nope, you sound, you sound off. That doesn't sound natural and we sit and redo all of those questions just for the purpose of social clips that's crazy, so you do it right after the recording if we, if we, if I can think of how to redo the questions fast enough, yes.
Speaker 2:If not, I'll like give it an hour and hope that the lighting hasn't changed that much. But there are some times where, well, actually, if I have to do it days later, we then just use all of those and we'll like record me nodding my head and then use that footage in the old episode and totally replace me, totally replace you all together because the lighting, as you brought up a really good point because, like, because you use I think you use your window light, so it's not natural light.
Speaker 2:I have a light, not as fancy as this, but I have one that I can turn from like cool color to warm color. That's all I know about it, and we use that just to in case my windows don't do enough. But even even with that light because I have windows in my apartment and I'm not going to black them out it changes every second of the day, the light is different Because the sun is always moving.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it is so it's. That's very interesting to think about, friend, because the sun is always moving. So yeah, it is so that's very interesting to think about.
Speaker 2:It's just like yeah, it's like if you're going to go back, just wearing the same clothes is not enough, nope, and like even if I think my hair looks the same no, it doesn't.
Speaker 2:And like the glare on the glasses is different. I wore the wrong earrings. You can tell the worst thing to put out. There is a clip where I'm wearing. Actually it'd be kind of funny if I looked entirely different throughout the clip. But if we need to do that level of surgery we will, especially if the content ends up. If it's what makes the content better, then you do it and you just re-record it.
Speaker 1:I know, okay, so you did one podcast with. It was the Timu episode. Okay, so tell us the story about this, because it was amazing.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to remember. So on the podcast we talked, timu had its moment before this de minimis tax thing. It ends, I believe, very soon but Timu found this loophole in how their business model operates and so, basically, americans could purchase things for like a dollar, and that's for anyone that didn't know what Timu is. There you go. But we were talking in this version of, or this segment of, the podcast, repeatedly about timu etc. And I can't remember how we got on this like you need to.
Speaker 2:There was the guest who's a recurring guest every single month was like oh, like, buy a couch from timu or something. And I I don't know if I had mentioned like, what couches look like and them being cheap and he was like, oh, you have to do it, expense it on the company. And so I bought this inflatable sofa, which is actually like for a child and it's just one little chair and it's more of like a pool floaty flotation device than it is an actual sofa. But of course we made it a point to bring that onto the show. And then I like took the mic and I went back in my room and sat on this little tiny chair and it was.
Speaker 2:It was incredibly funny, I think and this was a recurring storyline for months and months, and then I finally just bought the like 79 cent inflatable sofa and then that's how they advertise it like as a sofa yeah, yeah, got stuck in it and for a very technical podcast about a very technical industry. It just it's like, where can you insert those little moments of funniness that are still relevant and showcasing kind of what you're working with in terms of the team move business? But how do you bring something really funny and engaging to the audience that makes them want to keep watching you and think that you're entertaining?
Speaker 1:That's hilarious. I mean, I also think of like an inflatable sofa, I think you know, like you wouldn't have that in your house, like especially with dogs, children.
Speaker 2:I don't even know where that is anymore, but I'm sure my big dog treated it like a bounce or a beach ball and it is popped and it smelled weird, and oh my God, that's amazing. Okay, and it is popped and it smelled weird. Oh my God, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Okay, so okay, when you? So? Where did you learn about like your audio preferences? Did Klaus teach you a lot? Was it? Did you develop it yourself?
Speaker 2:I did absolutely nothing. They Klaus, the person that I worked with had extensive experience with different types of microphones and we kind of we bought a couple for me to test out as the host, and we just kind of were like you know what, emma, it's just gonna be you as host, so the most important thing is to find one that sounds good with your voice, and we landed on the Shure MV7. And so now I have like 20. Yeah, I'm sure MV7 is it's a super popular mic. Yeah, it's great, and I'll send it out to guests as well Most of the time depends on where they live, just so that we are consistent in how we sound.
Speaker 2:But we've also learned the CEO of the company sounds better on an F-Deuce microphone. So we have one of those. That Duncan sounds good on F-Deuce because he has a raspy voice voice. But, um, we kind of we also, though I have like a road reporter mic as well, though just I don't know if Shure doesn't make a reporter mic or what it is, but uh, the team prefers my voice on a road reporter mic. So, but yeah, it was a kind of listening buying all of these different microphones, landing on the one in which I, to me. I kind of sounded the same on all of them, but for my audio producer who wears these big, like $2,000 headphones, I sounded better on the Shure MV7. And that's just what we have rolled with since, and it's. It's a really easy mic to use and the buttons make so much sense and, yeah, super simple for idiots.
Speaker 1:That's good. Yeah, I know I love. So I met Klaus. He came. He came here to Arkansas once he did, and it was so funny having him and Eric meet, because Eric is just like whatever, let's go, just do it, I don't care about any of the details, but Klaus is like no.
Speaker 2:Headphones device like he's looking for ghosts. Yeah, he does look like he's looking for ghosts. Nobody is allowed to press record until everything sounds good, and I am grateful that I have learned enough to the point where I can in fact set up a recording on my own and, like when I travel, I have the equipment to the little Zoom recorder and all my cables and all my little mics.
Speaker 1:How do you deal with the like AC sounds like and the echo sounds?
Speaker 2:Because, like I remember Klaus, like I think we had to turn the AC off when we were in, like in our building, because he was like no, there's too much background noise. Uh, we've gotten looser in that regard since his departure, because I there's sometimes where it's actually. It's mostly up to Enos, the audio producer, as to what is truly not fixable and what is. But if I'm recording in real life with someone, we definitely will will. If I can hear the AC, I know that that diminishes the quality of the recording. Therefore, we are changing locations. If I can hear my voice echoing off the walls, we're changing locations, and sometimes that means in the setup that we had before we kind of started using the Zoom recorder, we had to be in different rooms because otherwise the mics pick up on each other, and so I again forgot your question, because I'm so used to being a host and just asking questions. It's good.
Speaker 1:No, it was about the mics and being in different rooms and all of the extra things you have to think about. Yeah, testing out all of them to land on what you think is going to be your solid microphone, and then accumulating an army of them so that you can send them to people, and also when one breaks, because we had one break and then you're just, you just have another one, you're swapping out, you're like all right there. You go.
Speaker 2:Yep, I have one in my apartment, which is the one I use. I've used for the past probably like year for every single recording and I'm just waiting for it to die. There's based on overuse, but there are 19 others in the closet, so one of them can just swap them out.
Speaker 1:There you go. I know that's what I love about editing too, because like our like, we sound proof, but like the intake is like in the top of the ceiling like we can't we can't soundproof the whole ceiling or else, like, we'll all suffocate and I think I think the, the ac will overheat.
Speaker 1:so what's great is there's editing tools and so, like, we have, like we use like a lot of like editing tools and posts to like help take all the echo and extra stuff out, so you know, it's like you don't need to sit in a soundproof box all the time.
Speaker 2:No, definitely not, and I know like my audio producer will fix sounds with. Well, I don't even know what she uses. I know she's in Pro Tools doing the majority of the voices and then I don't know where the actual in terms of external sounds that you're hearing. It's definitely not a requirement, it's just. I think there is a difference when you really hear a professional sounding podcast where attention to detail is paid to but, yeah, it's not.
Speaker 2:There are plenty of podcasts out there in which the sound quality you're like. I could have recorded that on my flip cam from 2005 and it would have sounded better yeah, okay, yeah, I've definitely heard some of those too.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's like you want to have, but I feel like, so we've talked about other with other guests about, um, like you know, what's more important, the video or the audio? What's your opinion?
Speaker 2:coming from a podcast where we are primarily audio only. I'm going to vote audio because I think I also. I know obviously I'm sitting at podcastvideoscom the studio, but I'm still under the impression that the majority of people, especially when you're in a business podcast setting, they're listening to that in their car. They're not actually watching. I know some people do and some people will, but I just like for what we do.
Speaker 1:You don't need but I just like, for what we do you don't need. Why do you even want to watch us? That's just listen, like we're literally just talking, there's nothing else.
Speaker 2:We're talking about Amazon advertising. We have no visuals for you other than just the two of us, therefore, but I think like I, definitely if the audio is horrible, it doesn't matter what the video like. It could be the best video you've ever seen, but if it makes you want to fork your eyes out because the audio is terrible, then it doesn't matter. So that's yeah, that's my hot take.
Speaker 1:I do and I agree I totally agree even though I'm sitting in podcast, you know, like, like I've met her. There's cameras everywhere video first, but no, it's the but the audio like if, if they can't understand what you're saying, they're not going to engage with the content.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I totally agree and I think, like a podcast like Call Her Daddy, has a lot more leniency in the audio, because you're there to watch her and her guest, who's probably famous, and, like you, want to see them. I don't think anybody wakes up and wants to see me talking about e-commerce. They just expect my voice to be the one leading the episode. If they are actually that into the show that they look forward to a new episode coming out, that's cool.
Speaker 1:Okay, three to my next question how did you evolve in becoming an industry expert?
Speaker 2:It's been five years and I think if you don't, this goes for any career. Like if you work in the same field for five years, if you haven't learned anything to the point of maybe not being an industry expert I even struggle to call myself that but like if you didn't learn anything in five years about your industry, what are you doing? Like, go switch industries. And so I think the podcast definitely. Just because I've had to interview so many different people who are 97 levels above me and have, at this point, centuries more experience than I did. I learned a lot from them and that my specific role in podcasting just exposed me to all of these different teams and functions that I never would have gotten exposure to. That has created a very well-rounded perspective on the industry. And I also I interview a ton of external people. I interview Amazon, I interview Walmart. I've never interviewed Target that was going to be a. I was just about to say that and completely lie but I've interviewed a lot of different retailers, a lot of different kind of tech providers, and all of that is just a unique perspective.
Speaker 2:But I'd say most of my industry expertise comes from, like, actually, the other part of my job, where I'm doing lots of writing for the company, and you have to understand what's going on in order to formulate an opinion on what's actually worth talking about.
Speaker 2:And then there's also that monthly recurring where the Timu inflatable couch comes in.
Speaker 2:The person that I interview is light years ahead of every human on the planet in terms of what he knows and what he says, and so I'm one of the few people that has to actually entertain a conversation with him every single month and distill it down to what other people can understand, but also understand what he's saying in order to ask the next question, because we do so much of that format on the fly, and so it's just absorbing as much information as you can, being incredibly curious, going out of your way to continue to learn. If you're not sure about something, ask someone and say hey, I'm about to record a podcast where I'm going to ask this question. Is this stupid? Am I going to look stupid if I say this? And therefore I also am very good at remembering what everyone else says and regurgitating it, and therefore I think that's what a lot of industry leadership is you just remembered what other people said and then you can say it better. You say it back to them, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can say it with confidence If anyone asks you a follow-up question. You're like oh I will get to get back. I'll circle back to you on that one, so go back. I have to go ask chat gpt, but so, okay, what would 14 year old emma think about today?
Speaker 2:emma, 14 year old emma was 100% convinced she was gonna be an orthopedic surgeon, and so I don't.
Speaker 2:Well, 14 year old Emma wouldn't even be able to comprehend what like retail media and e-commerce are, and but like the podcast host I also think would have like that would have never. I was such a nervous kid I don't know what changed in college where I decided that I was going to be cool on a microphone and funny, and at this point I might as well do stand-up, but like 14 year old me would have never thought I'd be in any kind of public speaking role. I really just thought I was going to be a surgeon and then I took chemistry and was like oh shit, yeah, like that's it, nope, that's not it and then meandered my way trying to figure out what to do in college and I landed on the I like to shop.
Speaker 2:That's how I ended up in retail merchandising. Okay, there you go. But yeah, I think 14-year-old me would be like absolutely not, there's no way that that's your career. Even 26-year-old me is still like this is what I do, like I podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is what I do, and when?
Speaker 2:like when you go home for Christmas and tell your family what you do, and I'm like, oh yeah, like I'm a podcast host, and people are like, okay, what do you actually do? I know?
Speaker 1:You're like no, that's it, that's the majority of my job.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Like that pays, you also do everything else, but yeah. That part's usually the wall who works in like finance and sales. When people ask about me, he's like, yeah, she does, like a professional podcast, I guess. Or he'll say she's a, she does a podcast, but like professionally like you're, not just like in his basement.
Speaker 2:Still I can hear crickets on the other end of the computer. It's like what does that mean? Yeah, and people, I think, are usually like about what, and then he'll be like yeah yeah, I know it's like like you're like, I do my parents watch my podcast.
Speaker 1:Do yours?
Speaker 2:I know my mom sees the little clips of me on LinkedIn here and there. The clips, yeah. I don't think either of them listen to the show. It's a foreign language to people that aren't familiar with commerce and retail media. I think maybe she goes in every once in a while. I know a lot of my friends will listen here and there and when I go and like visit home, they'll joke about something that I said on the show and it takes me a second to remember or to like connect what that is from and I was like, did you listen to that episode? Yeah, or like they'll blast it on the Bluetooth speakers at the fire pit, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like in the queue of normal songs of normal songs. So that's pretty funny. Yeah, I'm like no, I hate this. I, I don't want to listen to me, oh my god. But thankfully my uh, my like narrating voice is pretty different than my regular voice and so most people don't actually recognize that that's me I can hear it for the first time yeah, I did a recording once and two people were like is that you?
Speaker 1:and I'm like, that's my NPR voice.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, it's like yeah it's really up like I'm generally pretty like serious a little bit of comedy but pretty serious and how I present myself. But on the show I'm like I'm gonna have to go listen to it. That's not how I thought about it. That's how, when I listen back to myself, I'm like like what is going on? What is that? But that's what works. People have always been like you. Like you just have this incredible podcasting voice and I'm like, yeah, I'm a paid actor, what can?
Speaker 2:I say I just voice, act and put on a different character.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious. I'll do my npr voice like hello, thank you. Welcome to autofocus.
Speaker 2:We're happy you're here, you know I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad this is like a saturday night life skit. Yeah, oh, it's so good. I'm so glad that you're here and I'm glad that the podcast is going well and it's still going well and your guys are going strong. How many seasons do you guys do seasons? Or how many episodes you have out? Do you even know?
Speaker 2:I do, uh, we have 128 episodes now that spans over four years, which for some podcasts they'd be like, that's it. And uh, I give everyone the reminder that I do other things and all of you things have to, because I work for an agency. We have to go through an insane amount of approvals to not on our end, but anytime like an external company comes on. That takes forever, that can take months for it's them to even get approval to show up on the show. But we started out doing like we launched with one season of amazon focused content and that was our original strategy. And then we did one season of walmart and one season of instacart, and those were like the first three seasons.
Speaker 2:And then at the time there wasn't quite enough to like do another season on target in terms of what our own company could do, and so we sort of started pivoting away. We've always considered going back to seasons, and not necessarily like retailer specific seasons, but going back to the format of like we're gonna launch eight episodes at a time and I just it's really hard to get eight episodes lined up and shipped out to the world. Yeah, I'm like, I'd much rather just like you. You know, every two weeks or so we're going to launch an episode.
Speaker 2:There's going to be an episode and the content does vary quite a bit, and so, but it's consistent.
Speaker 1:That's what matters. Consistency matters everything.
Speaker 2:We've never missed a two week mark In those four years.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. So, yeah, consistency. And then you know, um, you know, just being able to, uh, keep going because, like most people, I think, there's a stat that 90 of podcasts don't get past episode three. So you're, you're way above that.
Speaker 2:We are doing great we are way above that. Like we have a could we change it up, probably? But like there is a format and how we do the recordings and how my audio producer and I work on the post-production and getting it approved and getting it set, and like I think it helps that I own almost all of that and we just have something that works, something that allows us to publish things on a consistent basis.
Speaker 1:And someday.
Speaker 2:I know everyone wants more content and I try, but I'm like I'll say hey, I'm one person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know I'm one person. Explain what are all the steps, because I think most people like don't understand, like all the steps that go into the pre-production. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:So it starts with I'm generally given the name of a guest that I'm supposed to interview. That's one, so you don't have to go out and find them yourself. I could try, but it's usually more helpful if someone above me makes the connection. So, thankfully, I'm usually given a hey, I think you should interview this person. That's helpful, but most of the time I have no idea. I've heard of them but I don't know anything about them. And so it starts with I go and do individual research on the person and, because we're businessy, this means looking at them on LinkedIn and I'm looking at how they describe their own job that they do, and then looking at their entire career trajectory what have they done beforehand? What different teams did they work on? That shape, what they'd be able to talk about on the show. And I'll also like Google them and see if they've done any recent speaking engagements, just to get a little bit of a okay, that's what this person sounds like sort of in real life sort of emphasis there. And so that's where we start.
Speaker 2:And then I always offer up to the guests that we do a intro call where we get to know each other and align on a topic. They're important calls. I hate those calls, they're always painful. But I get a good glimpse into I like I show up and I do a little bit on like what the podcast is, who the audience is. This is what the audience that I think likes to listen to, and I give them background on myself and that, like I'm not necessarily an established veteran of the industry, I am very much learning as well. So if I ask any questions that you think are dumb, like, say that and redirect it. But I'm also I sit there and I absorb how they respond, how they talk back to me and because that's usually a good uh precursor to how the recording is going to go and I know to write my questions or adapt my style to that personality that I get.
Speaker 2:But we do these like 30 minute intro calls. I will then, if we align on it, sometimes people will be like here are three things that I'd be willing to talk about. You pick, and so I will pick, and then other times we do actually align on a specific topic, I take it back, I'll ask a couple of questions. If I need clarifying kind of bits of info, I take it back, and then I write a script that I think makes sense. I usually, like a child, I work in the intro body conclusion format and within the body. There I always aim for like three different sections of topics or information write the questions, send it back to the guests they usually need to send it through some kind of PR or comms approval and then then I always tell people you can write out your answers or not, doesn't matter to me, just don't read them straight off the paper unless your PR says you have to do that, and then I believe we eventually sit down to record and I give the whole gist of like this is not a live recording.
Speaker 2:You can start over however many times you want, because we edit the crap out of it Exactly and like like, if you want to make yourself sound smarter, go for it. But I think that is generally the whole prep process. But, like, I know I just talked for seven minutes on that, but that's how long it takes. But yeah, I mean I I'll spend hours trying to figure out who this person is, what their job actually is, how much do they? What do they want to talk about? Because a lot of people, even if they're like the ceo of a company, they come in and they're like well, what do you want to talk about?
Speaker 1:I'm like I don't know you're like no, no, no, we're here, like you have. You have rules, I don't have rules. Like what do you want to talk about?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, like what do you? Are you launching a product soon that you want to talk about? Is there anything like from your side that marketing is telling you to talk about in your so my dog's hair?
Speaker 1:I think it is that was great, I saw it, yeah, but yeah it's, it's a lot of work.
Speaker 2:And to go from like to meet a complete stranger and then be like, okay, we're gonna align on what we're talking about, except I don't really know what you do.
Speaker 1:I did a lot of research but even then still.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's a lot of scanning these people's profiles and weirdly showing up as a this Emma Irwin viewed your LinkedIn profile like multiple days, multiple times, multiple days, and doing a lot of research on their companies as well, and beyond what they just do. But yeah, that can take hours and it is laborious, yeah, it takes a lot of time.
Speaker 1:And then you, because like you want to, it's like, and then you have to align on something. And then you didn't mention the fact, like when you, after you, send it to the PR or like the marketing people, and then they come back with their edits or like legal or something like that, and you're like so now we have nothing to talk about.
Speaker 2:You know like yeah, and yeah, you can tell what an interview is going to be like, based on if PR is really so strict that they are in there editing word for word what the person is going to say. Yeah, that episode is going to be awful because it's just so scripted and I've gotten over four years. I've gotten pretty good at even if they write a question that I have to ask word for word, like making it sound like it's still my natural voice, and I'll add in some likes and some ums because they can't yell at me, for nobody has yelled at me for doing that since.
Speaker 1:But yeah, if you, if you write everything out that that's just painful to listen to yeah, I was gonna say, like, what do you do if your client is like, or if the guest is like reading it like, blah blah, blah blah is there. Can you fix that in post?
Speaker 2:oh, I'd say like not really. That's. What we then do afterwards is like kind of redo my narrations that transition us from section to section. And that goes ties back to what I was talking about earlier, which is like how much, how can I insert my own energy into this post-production? We can I mean you can always, because we don't record or we don't do live recordings that stream out to the world. I can be like you're really like, is there any way for you to not read straight off the paper?
Speaker 2:and or, like I just sound like you're reading straight out of the paper. Can you? Can you like, put on a shakespearean voice or something? Something, anything, something to change and, of course, the pr person that I can see in the corner is like no but it, they just suck that it's painful, yeah, so those are like the worst interviews that you had yes, I don't have to think at all in them here.
Speaker 1:It is like let's just read this and they're there. You know, I'm just a prop. At least there's no video for those, because I think that would be the hardest part, like if somebody is actually like reading you would be you would totally be able to tell oh yeah you can even like when for the clips of videos that we do have.
Speaker 2:Even if someone like the mic is here and their screen is still even eye level with the camera, you can tell that they're not looking quite into the camera. They are reading, and then you get the eye tracking, tracking. Yeah, we can do a little bit of eye tracking correction in post-production. But yeah, I mean, if your paper's right here we were like, okay, that wow, that needs to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're like oh, wow, awesome. Okay, thank you so much for being here, of course, and you brought in, you left your dog hair, which is amazing.
Speaker 2:I know I always bring my dog hair.
Speaker 1:It's part of me at this point. That's fine. Thank you so much for being here. I'd always end on the last question is what advice would you give to someone who was just starting out?
Speaker 2:oh, that is a good question. Um, do a lot of practice of if you're like, if you're starting out as the host, which I'm assuming, these people that are listening would be in that dog hair just keeps going, do a lot of practice of like interviewing your friends, and I think that's also that's a really great way because it feels so awkward.
Speaker 2:It's actually a good replication of what interviewing people is like and, granted, if you're doing a show where it's just you talking and then you like support with graphics, that's a little bit different. But practice different variations of yourself as a host and maybe authentic you is the best one, but maybe it's not and I think it's an opportunity to explore different kind of elements of your own personality and just a lot of practice of absorbing the body language of other people and kind of seeing and checking the vibes of the room, because there are some times I can tell that like a guest just doesn't like me and that's okay, but you can just tell when someone doesn't like you.
Speaker 2:But you need to practice also being okay with being disliked and you're like that's fine. They think I'm crazy. You can change up a couple of things, but that is sometimes what happens. But yeah, do as much, practice as many mock interviews. Go interview your dog and interview a tree and just kind of be that host character, because a boring host makes for a boring podcast. There you go.
Speaker 1:All right. Thank you so much, Emma, for being here and we'll see you guys next.